Comments on: Rise of the Eldrazi – Transcendent Master http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/ Where you learn to love what Mike Flores loves Tue, 01 May 2012 04:49:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: TattooedOni http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1805 TattooedOni Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:35:46 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1805 Agreed. I do think that for the most part if your using the GUT in card evaluation to compare the effect vs cost of constructed playable cards 9 mana for a 6/6 life link isn't too hot. Especially when instead of using Day of Judgement on a single dude you use a lightning bolt with the relevant leveling on the stack. Instead of just trying to rephrase different examples lets just use one Transcendent Master at level six on turn 5 and taken out by a Day of Judgment on the next turn. Your still undoing everything the bad guy has done on turns 3-5 and destroying 9 mana worth of development (plus any men he might have played on turn one or two) with four mana. Thats even if you only get one card. If you were playing against MYthic instead of Transcendent Master.dec your turn 6 DOJ might get 3 mana excel guys and a baneslayer. You would be getting a 4 for 1, but still only undoing about 9 or so mana worth of development. Agreed. I do think that for the most part if your using the GUT in card evaluation to compare the effect vs cost of constructed playable cards 9 mana for a 6/6 life link isn’t too hot. Especially when instead of using Day of Judgement on a single dude you use a lightning bolt with the relevant leveling on the stack. Instead of just trying to rephrase different examples lets just use one Transcendent Master at level six on turn 5 and taken out by a Day of Judgment on the next turn. Your still undoing everything the bad guy has done on turns 3-5 and destroying 9 mana worth of development (plus any men he might have played on turn one or two) with four mana. Thats even if you only get one card. If you were playing against MYthic instead of Transcendent Master.dec your turn 6 DOJ might get 3 mana excel guys and a baneslayer. You would be getting a 4 for 1, but still only undoing about 9 or so mana worth of development.

]]> By: hudnall56 http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1804 hudnall56 Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:39:06 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1804 @ Tattooed Oni I think that you have much of the GUT (and it will probably be easier to say one way or the other when there are more articles regarding it) right, but might not have applied it throughout your reasoning. As far as I understand it this New GUT works in terms of not just how much mana you spend in a game, but also how hard that mana works for you. In the case of the levelers you have to look at how much mana you are expecting to put into them and then add to that whatever value you get from having the option to level them up further. For Transcendent Master and Student of Warfare 3 mana is about on par with other constructed playable creatures. There is some added value for being able to use your excess mana or force your opponent to spend a Day of Judgement on a single dude or somesuch, but without their 3/3 for 3ness, they wouldn't even be in consideration for constructed. @ Tattooed Oni

I think that you have much of the GUT (and it will probably be easier to say one way or the other when there are more articles regarding it) right, but might not have applied it throughout your reasoning. As far as I understand it this New GUT works in terms of not just how much mana you spend in a game, but also how hard that mana works for you. In the case of the levelers you have to look at how much mana you are expecting to put into them and then add to that whatever value you get from having the option to level them up further. For Transcendent Master and Student of Warfare 3 mana is about on par with other constructed playable creatures. There is some added value for being able to use your excess mana or force your opponent to spend a Day of Judgement on a single dude or somesuch, but without their 3/3 for 3ness, they wouldn’t even be in consideration for constructed.

]]> By: MTGBattlefield http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1798 MTGBattlefield Fri, 09 Apr 2010 05:01:15 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1798 <strong>Rise of the Eldrazi - Transcendent Master...</strong> Your story has been summoned to the battlefield - Trackback from MTGBattlefield... Rise of the Eldrazi – Transcendent Master…

Your story has been summoned to the battlefield – Trackback from MTGBattlefield…

]]> By: TattooedOni http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1795 TattooedOni Fri, 09 Apr 2010 02:40:07 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1795 I can't pretend to be able to wax that philosophical about the "Grand Unified Theory" (the GUT from now on)considering it is unpublished so my ideas could be just wrong but... It seems to me that the GUT would tell me that levelers in general are bad. I haven't really seen one yet where the body and ability you can get through a massive mana investment can not be profitably removed with dirt cheap removal. Its just too risky. Some of these men can be removed for one red mana with the final level payment on the stack....after you have already pumped 8 mana into it (in the masters case). The GUT tells me that I just got crushed. Hard. Probably I wasn't doing much more than leveling my master if I have him at level 5, so its not like I have something else going on. I remember that part of the GUT is that you want to be using as much mana as possible each turn, so levelers give you a mana sink for otherwise fallow mana. That swing of having your leveler destroyed, but only after you have paid a silly amount of money into it, before get to a game warping ability has got to make that mana much more fallow. You have already overpaid for an OK at best creature. In the Masters case you could have paid 7 mana over a few turn and all you got was a Gnarled mass 3/3. If it gets removed by a bolt you didn't lose card advantage, but the bad guy just went ahead +6 mana. I am not trying to say master is a bad card, or that levelers will end up being bad overall. The GUT, a theory that I have really bought into with every little scrap of info released, as I understand it tells me that they are at best very very risky. I just can't imagine them being really good outside of Zendikar Block Constructed. I haven't really heard any theory better than the GUT that tells me that levelers will actually be good in anything I have read to this point. I can’t pretend to be able to wax that philosophical about the “Grand Unified Theory” (the GUT from now on)considering it is unpublished so my ideas could be just wrong but… It seems to me that the GUT would tell me that levelers in general are bad. I haven’t really seen one yet where the body and ability you can get through a massive mana investment can not be profitably removed with dirt cheap removal. Its just too risky. Some of these men can be removed for one red mana with the final level payment on the stack….after you have already pumped 8 mana into it (in the masters case). The GUT tells me that I just got crushed. Hard. Probably I wasn’t doing much more than leveling my master if I have him at level 5, so its not like I have something else going on.

I remember that part of the GUT is that you want to be using as much mana as possible each turn, so levelers give you a mana sink for otherwise fallow mana. That swing of having your leveler destroyed, but only after you have paid a silly amount of money into it, before get to a game warping ability has got to make that mana much more fallow. You have already overpaid for an OK at best creature. In the Masters case you could have paid 7 mana over a few turn and all you got was a Gnarled mass 3/3. If it gets removed by a bolt you didn’t lose card advantage, but the bad guy just went ahead +6 mana.

I am not trying to say master is a bad card, or that levelers will end up being bad overall. The GUT, a theory that I have really bought into with every little scrap of info released, as I understand it tells me that they are at best very very risky. I just can’t imagine them being really good outside of Zendikar Block Constructed. I haven’t really heard any theory better than the GUT that tells me that levelers will actually be good in anything I have read to this point.

]]> By: ProdigalT http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1794 ProdigalT Thu, 08 Apr 2010 22:16:42 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1794 Obviously I hate hate hate Critical Mass. The Master is not really all that good, imo, especially when you stack it next to Student of Warfare, which has to advantage of being searchable with Ranger. I just don't see this guy getting to the next level without being dealt with via Blot or Path or any number of myraid spells (how bad is Jace to levelers?). Not to mention a certain Wall that is likely to become ubiquitous. Anyway, Gnarled Mass is totally obsoleted by Great Sable Stag, and that doesn't even see much play anymore. Green has Leatherback Baloth now, one of the few cheap cards that's going to ignore Wall of Omens. Obviously I hate hate hate Critical Mass. The Master is not really all that good, imo, especially when you stack it next to Student of Warfare, which has to advantage of being searchable with Ranger. I just don’t see this guy getting to the next level without being dealt with via Blot or Path or any number of myraid spells (how bad is Jace to levelers?). Not to mention a certain Wall that is likely to become ubiquitous. Anyway, Gnarled Mass is totally obsoleted by Great Sable Stag, and that doesn’t even see much play anymore. Green has Leatherback Baloth now, one of the few cheap cards that’s going to ignore Wall of Omens.

]]> By: Slov01 http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1793 Slov01 Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:28:16 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1793 What about Student of Warfare 3/3 first strike for WWW? This is what lightning bolt does to the format. What about Student of Warfare 3/3 first strike for WWW? This is what lightning bolt does to the format.

]]> By: thissatori http://fivewithflores.com/2010/04/rise-of-the-eldrazi-transcendent-master/#comment-1792 thissatori Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:29:41 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=924#comment-1792 Love the article. I laughed and had a good time. Looks like white is getting lots of things in this set that used to be green. Love the article. I laughed and had a good time. Looks like white is getting lots of things in this set that used to be green.

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