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	<title>Comments on: Building a Better Cruel Ultimatum</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/</link>
	<description>Where you learn to love what Mike Flores loves</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 04:49:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Beano0</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1690</link>
		<dc:creator>Beano0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1690</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to know what this deck might look like post worldwake, if any changes would be made at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to know what this deck might look like post worldwake, if any changes would be made at all.</p>
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		<title>By: bearwithbigclaws</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1623</link>
		<dc:creator>bearwithbigclaws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1623</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the responses, Mike!  This deck has been running great for me, it&#039;s definitely a winner.  Couple more questions for you: I really want to make room for the other 2 Nighthawks and 2x Thought Hemorrhage...  Thinking about cutting the Ruinblasters, as the matches in which I would consider siding them in usually go my way without doing so.  How have they been for you against the meta?

Also, is adding Nicol Bolas as a one-of (in place of a Cruel) getting too cute?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the responses, Mike!  This deck has been running great for me, it&#8217;s definitely a winner.  Couple more questions for you: I really want to make room for the other 2 Nighthawks and 2x Thought Hemorrhage&#8230;  Thinking about cutting the Ruinblasters, as the matches in which I would consider siding them in usually go my way without doing so.  How have they been for you against the meta?</p>
<p>Also, is adding Nicol Bolas as a one-of (in place of a Cruel) getting too cute?</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1594</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 05:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1594</guid>
		<description>@Norm
Probably :)

@JoeyPasco
You know how I feel about YMTGT, &amp;c.

Spreading Seas is gas. You&#039;ll notice BDM talking about how good the mana is... This deck regularly paces and laps other control decks while playing only 25 lands; Spreading Seas [as a cantrip] is part of that plan.

@MTGBattlefield
As usual!

@wrongwaygoback
I don&#039;t agree. There are so many games where any card but Cruel Ultimatum would be not good enough. I don&#039;t think Chandra gives this deck very much, honestly. The plus ability is so slow whereas Sorin and Cruel Ultimatum have such significant effects on not just the future, but the board.

@scouter3000
Just keep running cards out there. You have the advantage because your cards are fast and awesome and one-sided. They don&#039;t have enough counters, and every turn they hold back it gets a little better for you because you can end step them with Bolts or big kicks and that means good things will happen for the good people. Also Sedraxis Specter and Blightning are essentially impossible to beat in an attrition fight when backed up by the same amount of card draw that the opponent has.

@Murwiz
You&#039;re probably right. Terminate would be better v. Vampires (originally was for mana reasons).

@bloodyspasm
As above; as above. Both of the big spells in this deck are better than Chandra. Remember, it&#039;s relatively difficult to protect a Planeswalker with this deck. Sorin protects himself by sniping little guys while adding two loyalty.

@manudosde
Thanks! Again, I don&#039;t play the Chandra and I don&#039;t think it is as good as the bigs that I do include. Your sideboard changes seem fine. I never side the Earthquake and Pyroclasm by the way :) 

Becker suggested Thought Hemorrhage for Bloodghast and control decks... Might be a better Red spell there.

@dommonk
I don&#039;t think those changes are particularly positive. If you want to add a land, you can go Becker&#039;s route and just add one (would be a Dragonskull Summit or Terramorphic Expanse) and play 61.

@BrendanJourney
Great job. 

I&#039;d print a report :)

@tongonation
Per chats :)

@ibanez
I strenuously disagree with your changes. I think Sphinx of Jwar Isle is such a fake card. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s good at all and it&#039;s particularly bad in this deck, which is so efficient. The whole point of this deck is cantrip action and forward momentum... I don&#039;t see how Terminate can really contribute much in the main. If you want to cut Into the Roil, I suggest Countersquall.

4 Cruel Ultimatum is NOT excessive IMO :)

@Sunforger
Ruinblaster is better than Demolish due to Cruel Ultimatum. Also Negate is generally more heavily played than Essence Scatter.

@GarMan
It really depends on the game. Usually I send some somewhere and the others the other lace.

@ibanez
I&#039;m glad you (mostly) came around. Don&#039;t worry about their using anti-creature against Ruinblaster ONCE HE&#039;S ALREADY ON THE TABLE. That&#039;s just one more card out of the grip and actually helps the Blightning / Sedraxis side set up Cruel Ultimatum.

@tongonation
Agree, agree, agree, disagree.

@urzassedatives
I would try that. Thanks! 

But will probably try Thought Hemorrhage first (per Becker aka @tongonation)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Norm<br />
Probably <img src='http://fivewithflores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@JoeyPasco<br />
You know how I feel about YMTGT, &#038;c.</p>
<p>Spreading Seas is gas. You&#8217;ll notice BDM talking about how good the mana is&#8230; This deck regularly paces and laps other control decks while playing only 25 lands; Spreading Seas [as a cantrip] is part of that plan.</p>
<p>@MTGBattlefield<br />
As usual!</p>
<p>@wrongwaygoback<br />
I don&#8217;t agree. There are so many games where any card but Cruel Ultimatum would be not good enough. I don&#8217;t think Chandra gives this deck very much, honestly. The plus ability is so slow whereas Sorin and Cruel Ultimatum have such significant effects on not just the future, but the board.</p>
<p>@scouter3000<br />
Just keep running cards out there. You have the advantage because your cards are fast and awesome and one-sided. They don&#8217;t have enough counters, and every turn they hold back it gets a little better for you because you can end step them with Bolts or big kicks and that means good things will happen for the good people. Also Sedraxis Specter and Blightning are essentially impossible to beat in an attrition fight when backed up by the same amount of card draw that the opponent has.</p>
<p>@Murwiz<br />
You&#8217;re probably right. Terminate would be better v. Vampires (originally was for mana reasons).</p>
<p>@bloodyspasm<br />
As above; as above. Both of the big spells in this deck are better than Chandra. Remember, it&#8217;s relatively difficult to protect a Planeswalker with this deck. Sorin protects himself by sniping little guys while adding two loyalty.</p>
<p>@manudosde<br />
Thanks! Again, I don&#8217;t play the Chandra and I don&#8217;t think it is as good as the bigs that I do include. Your sideboard changes seem fine. I never side the Earthquake and Pyroclasm by the way <img src='http://fivewithflores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Becker suggested Thought Hemorrhage for Bloodghast and control decks&#8230; Might be a better Red spell there.</p>
<p>@dommonk<br />
I don&#8217;t think those changes are particularly positive. If you want to add a land, you can go Becker&#8217;s route and just add one (would be a Dragonskull Summit or Terramorphic Expanse) and play 61.</p>
<p>@BrendanJourney<br />
Great job. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d print a report <img src='http://fivewithflores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@tongonation<br />
Per chats <img src='http://fivewithflores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@ibanez<br />
I strenuously disagree with your changes. I think Sphinx of Jwar Isle is such a fake card. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s good at all and it&#8217;s particularly bad in this deck, which is so efficient. The whole point of this deck is cantrip action and forward momentum&#8230; I don&#8217;t see how Terminate can really contribute much in the main. If you want to cut Into the Roil, I suggest Countersquall.</p>
<p>4 Cruel Ultimatum is NOT excessive IMO <img src='http://fivewithflores.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Sunforger<br />
Ruinblaster is better than Demolish due to Cruel Ultimatum. Also Negate is generally more heavily played than Essence Scatter.</p>
<p>@GarMan<br />
It really depends on the game. Usually I send some somewhere and the others the other lace.</p>
<p>@ibanez<br />
I&#8217;m glad you (mostly) came around. Don&#8217;t worry about their using anti-creature against Ruinblaster ONCE HE&#8217;S ALREADY ON THE TABLE. That&#8217;s just one more card out of the grip and actually helps the Blightning / Sedraxis side set up Cruel Ultimatum.</p>
<p>@tongonation<br />
Agree, agree, agree, disagree.</p>
<p>@urzassedatives<br />
I would try that. Thanks! </p>
<p>But will probably try Thought Hemorrhage first (per Becker aka @tongonation)</p>
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		<title>By: Yo! MtG TAPS! #9a – Ramping Up to Bestial Menace &#124; MTGCast - Magic the Gathering Podcast Network</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1586</link>
		<dc:creator>Yo! MtG TAPS! #9a – Ramping Up to Bestial Menace &#124; MTGCast - Magic the Gathering Podcast Network</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1586</guid>
		<description>[...] FiveWithFlores &#8211; Building a Better Cruel Ultimatum http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] FiveWithFlores &#8211; Building a Better Cruel Ultimatum <a href="http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/" rel="nofollow">http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: urzassedatives</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1585</link>
		<dc:creator>urzassedatives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1585</guid>
		<description>Card that destroys vampires through and through (in my experience):
-Haunting Echoes
In a previous grixis build, I killed some of his creatures, then blew up his entire deck. He had no legitimate threats left in afterwards. This deck&#039;s heavy focus on discard will ensure the yard is full of juicy things to make go away.
The card is also great against fog decks, and most decks that run irritating cards.

Swerve should be in the side, IMO. Vastly underrated...also good against vamps. (no you mind sludge yourself)

I have to test this teck online before I apply tweaks, but Chandra doesn&#039;t belong in here. 1x Liliana would be preferable to me. I&#039;ll test it with into the roil, but I have never enjoyed using that card, so we will see if it proves its mettle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Card that destroys vampires through and through (in my experience):<br />
-Haunting Echoes<br />
In a previous grixis build, I killed some of his creatures, then blew up his entire deck. He had no legitimate threats left in afterwards. This deck&#8217;s heavy focus on discard will ensure the yard is full of juicy things to make go away.<br />
The card is also great against fog decks, and most decks that run irritating cards.</p>
<p>Swerve should be in the side, IMO. Vastly underrated&#8230;also good against vamps. (no you mind sludge yourself)</p>
<p>I have to test this teck online before I apply tweaks, but Chandra doesn&#8217;t belong in here. 1x Liliana would be preferable to me. I&#8217;ll test it with into the roil, but I have never enjoyed using that card, so we will see if it proves its mettle.</p>
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		<title>By: tongonation</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1581</link>
		<dc:creator>tongonation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1581</guid>
		<description>(i) Sphinx does nothing against vamps/bloodghast, as it is simply fodder for gatekeeper.  Even if it lives, it has to face down 5/4 nocturnus or nighthawk, both of which kill it. 

(ii) honestly, what is the affinity for chandra?  She presses your weakest color, numerically, and does almost nothing.  I tried testing with one, which is seldom drawn, and when i drew it, it was never exciting.  Never.  Every time I chandra&#039;d, I would have rather had a terminate or a banefire,  Eighty percent of the time a gatekeeper would have been better (which works well with cruel) and heck, most of the time a sign in blood would have been better than silly chandra.

(iii) Demolish is a pile of shit.  At least Ruinblaster kills a land and then blocks something while you build to cruel.

(iv) I hate to say so, but I think you either have to say fuck the vampire matchup, or use something like thought hemorrage (also fine vs a control deck) or some radical sideboard vs., ghast/vamps, which might weaken the post board too much against other decks.  s

Shrug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(i) Sphinx does nothing against vamps/bloodghast, as it is simply fodder for gatekeeper.  Even if it lives, it has to face down 5/4 nocturnus or nighthawk, both of which kill it. </p>
<p>(ii) honestly, what is the affinity for chandra?  She presses your weakest color, numerically, and does almost nothing.  I tried testing with one, which is seldom drawn, and when i drew it, it was never exciting.  Never.  Every time I chandra&#8217;d, I would have rather had a terminate or a banefire,  Eighty percent of the time a gatekeeper would have been better (which works well with cruel) and heck, most of the time a sign in blood would have been better than silly chandra.</p>
<p>(iii) Demolish is a pile of shit.  At least Ruinblaster kills a land and then blocks something while you build to cruel.</p>
<p>(iv) I hate to say so, but I think you either have to say fuck the vampire matchup, or use something like thought hemorrage (also fine vs a control deck) or some radical sideboard vs., ghast/vamps, which might weaken the post board too much against other decks.  s</p>
<p>Shrug.</p>
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		<title>By: ibanez</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1579</link>
		<dc:creator>ibanez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 01:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1579</guid>
		<description>After testing the changes I comented above, I&#039;ve found that the 3 sorins and 3 cruel ultimatums are very necesary. -1 cruel +1 chanda is the deal after the testing. Demolish seems better in this deck because ruinblaster enables their anti creatures stuff and demolish works well against jacerator. Agony warp is under test but I feel terminate has more use(iona, baneslayer and the summoning trap in general)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After testing the changes I comented above, I&#8217;ve found that the 3 sorins and 3 cruel ultimatums are very necesary. -1 cruel +1 chanda is the deal after the testing. Demolish seems better in this deck because ruinblaster enables their anti creatures stuff and demolish works well against jacerator. Agony warp is under test but I feel terminate has more use(iona, baneslayer and the summoning trap in general)</p>
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		<title>By: GarMan</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>GarMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been playing this deck with mix success and I am wondering if I am playing it wrong. I find I get into situations where I am using bolts and the like to burn creatures, and I was wondering if that is a mistake? Should I be throwing all my red stuff at their faces?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been playing this deck with mix success and I am wondering if I am playing it wrong. I find I get into situations where I am using bolts and the like to burn creatures, and I was wondering if that is a mistake? Should I be throwing all my red stuff at their faces?</p>
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		<title>By: Sunforger</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1577</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunforger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1577</guid>
		<description>I like the deck alot. Doom Blade over Terminate as an out to Iona I think. I run an identical list cept for the following.

-4 Ruinblaster +4 Demolish [broader card, easier to cast, and the 2 power shouldnt be too relevent]
-2 Into the Roil +2 Agony Warp [Warp is great against RDW/Boros Roil is better against Jund/Walkers, metagame call]
-1 Cruel Ultimatum +1 Dragonskull Sumit [-2 cantrips maindeck so +1 land since I think we were already a little light]
-1 Pyroclasm, -1 Earthquake +2 Agony Warp [I like warp better than clasm for sure, Quake is debatable though] 

I find the worst matchup is the Open the Vaults control deck, in which demolish is handy at times but not amazing. I did had -1 Sorin +1 Vess but I found I wanted the Sorin straght away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the deck alot. Doom Blade over Terminate as an out to Iona I think. I run an identical list cept for the following.</p>
<p>-4 Ruinblaster +4 Demolish [broader card, easier to cast, and the 2 power shouldnt be too relevent]<br />
-2 Into the Roil +2 Agony Warp [Warp is great against RDW/Boros Roil is better against Jund/Walkers, metagame call]<br />
-1 Cruel Ultimatum +1 Dragonskull Sumit [-2 cantrips maindeck so +1 land since I think we were already a little light]<br />
-1 Pyroclasm, -1 Earthquake +2 Agony Warp [I like warp better than clasm for sure, Quake is debatable though] </p>
<p>I find the worst matchup is the Open the Vaults control deck, in which demolish is handy at times but not amazing. I did had -1 Sorin +1 Vess but I found I wanted the Sorin straght away.</p>
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		<title>By: ibanez</title>
		<link>http://fivewithflores.com/2010/01/building-a-better-cruel-ultimatum/#comment-1575</link>
		<dc:creator>ibanez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fivewithflores.com/?p=888#comment-1575</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been testing this deck a lot and the changes I&#039;ve made are: -2 into the roil +2 terminate, -1 cruel ultimatum +1 chandra nalaar. Other posible changes that I&#039;m testing are another -1 cruel +1 sphinx of Jwar Isle and -2 into the roil +2 countersquall. I feel 4 cruel is excesive as in all the testing I&#039;ve started with 1 cruel in hand, wich is a bad thing. For the bloodghast and against a deck with lots of creatures I think sphinx fits in quite well (a single sphinx against vampires is very unconfortable for them). If not in main, I&#039;ll fit a sphinx in sb. Also lavaball trap maybe instead if 1 ruinblaster? Please comment and leave suggestions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been testing this deck a lot and the changes I&#8217;ve made are: -2 into the roil +2 terminate, -1 cruel ultimatum +1 chandra nalaar. Other posible changes that I&#8217;m testing are another -1 cruel +1 sphinx of Jwar Isle and -2 into the roil +2 countersquall. I feel 4 cruel is excesive as in all the testing I&#8217;ve started with 1 cruel in hand, wich is a bad thing. For the bloodghast and against a deck with lots of creatures I think sphinx fits in quite well (a single sphinx against vampires is very unconfortable for them). If not in main, I&#8217;ll fit a sphinx in sb. Also lavaball trap maybe instead if 1 ruinblaster? Please comment and leave suggestions.</p>
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