Comments on: Five With Tarmogoyfs & Stuff http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/ Where you learn to love what Mike Flores loves Tue, 20 Dec 2011 04:49:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Five With Flores » Cautiously Whelmed by Thrun, the Last Troll http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-3670 Five With Flores » Cautiously Whelmed by Thrun, the Last Troll Sun, 23 Jan 2011 15:07:31 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-3670 [...] can I see Thrun, the Last Troll fitting in? I think that Thrun, the Last Troll will be very Tarmogoyf-ish… Played heavily by decks that capable of casting it, but not played everywhere. For [...] [...] can I see Thrun, the Last Troll fitting in? I think that Thrun, the Last Troll will be very Tarmogoyf-ish… Played heavily by decks that capable of casting it, but not played everywhere. For [...]

]]> By: admin http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-347 admin Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:14:02 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-347 @towelie1 Hey! Thanks for joining us and your perspective (also sorry if I was grumpy sounding... as I put in the PS to this post I was in a bad mood that night). I have to agree with GavinV (who by the way has heartlessly stabbed my friend and deck in the heart today... Round 3 against Josh Ravitz, who was then paired with BK as well! Holy Five With Flores!) that Cloud needs some action against Vortex strats... Even if Fae is the more common matchup, it doesn't seem that rough whereas the Vortex decks are an uphill battle, even if less popular. Thanks for posting! --m @towelie1
Hey! Thanks for joining us and your perspective (also sorry if I was grumpy sounding… as I put in the PS to this post I was in a bad mood that night). I have to agree with GavinV (who by the way has heartlessly stabbed my friend and deck in the heart today… Round 3 against Josh Ravitz, who was then paired with BK as well! Holy Five With Flores!) that Cloud needs some action against Vortex strats… Even if Fae is the more common matchup, it doesn’t seem that rough whereas the Vortex decks are an uphill battle, even if less popular.

Thanks for posting!

–m

]]> By: towelie1 http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-346 towelie1 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:26:39 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-346 Hey, I was the Death Cloud player that you played against. The reason I left in the Thoughtseizes was a combination of trying to get Vortex and a lack of better sideboard options. The deck that you played and zoo are not very common in 4-mans and PEs so I didn't really have many sideboard options for it. Much of my sideboard is fo Faeries, as it is by far the most popular deck. Too bad I wasn't able to make the match more interesting, but I didn't see Finks or Baloth that match. Hey, I was the Death Cloud player that you played against. The reason I left in the Thoughtseizes was a combination of trying to get Vortex and a lack of better sideboard options. The deck that you played and zoo are not very common in 4-mans and PEs so I didn’t really have many sideboard options for it. Much of my sideboard is fo Faeries, as it is by far the most popular deck. Too bad I wasn’t able to make the match more interesting, but I didn’t see Finks or Baloth that match.

]]> By: admin http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-345 admin Sat, 17 Jan 2009 05:16:40 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-345 Wait until the next post! Wait until the next post!

]]> By: rubbaducky42 http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-344 rubbaducky42 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:39:22 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-344 Less grumpy now? Less grumpy now?

]]> By: admin http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-343 admin Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:24:03 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-343 @GavinV As you know -- but other peeps probably don't -- the list I sent you a little while back had both Engineered Explosives and Crime // Punishment! I think your choice to go with Smothers is ultimately better v. Zoo decks with Gaddock Teeg (obviously)... but when I was playing The Rock I really loved the combination of power and versatility. @GavinV
As you know — but other peeps probably don’t — the list I sent you a little while back had both Engineered Explosives and Crime // Punishment! I think your choice to go with Smothers is ultimately better v. Zoo decks with Gaddock Teeg (obviously)… but when I was playing The Rock I really loved the combination of power and versatility.

]]> By: GavinV http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-342 GavinV Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:41:04 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-342 Also, this is yet another reason why I like Explosives more than wrath or Punishment. It just has so much more versatility than wrathing and can come online one turn earlier than Punishment. I understand Gerry's arguments against zoo, but I still highly prefer Explosives. Also, this is yet another reason why I like Explosives more than wrath or Punishment. It just has so much more versatility than wrathing and can come online one turn earlier than Punishment. I understand Gerry’s arguments against zoo, but I still highly prefer Explosives.

]]> By: GavinV http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-341 GavinV Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:38:01 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-341 He was probably just following what GerryT said to do in his article on the deck this week. (Leave Thoughtseize in against Vortex) In my testing, Thoughtseize is really only great when you hit Vortex. True, Vortex is crucial and the game hinges on it, but you should have other sideboarded ways to deal with Vortex. The problem is that often you are using Thoughtseize to "trade up" one or two damage, which isn't really worthwhile to leave in your deck. It ends up being something like B, gain 1-3 life, but worse because your opponent doesn't have to tap mana for his spell and you do. It's a bad Healing Salve! And don't get me started on what happens when you draw one while you're desperately looking for action at 3-5 life and he has 0-1 cards in hand... If your sole goal is to nug Vortex I can see leaving it in, but (in my opinion, although it is contrary to what Gerry says) there's more to the matchup than that and I would much rather just board in cards that are overall more effective against Vortex (and their deck) as long as I have them in my sideboard. Gavin He was probably just following what GerryT said to do in his article on the deck this week. (Leave Thoughtseize in against Vortex)

In my testing, Thoughtseize is really only great when you hit Vortex. True, Vortex is crucial and the game hinges on it, but you should have other sideboarded ways to deal with Vortex. The problem is that often you are using Thoughtseize to “trade up” one or two damage, which isn’t really worthwhile to leave in your deck. It ends up being something like B, gain 1-3 life, but worse because your opponent doesn’t have to tap mana for his spell and you do. It’s a bad Healing Salve! And don’t get me started on what happens when you draw one while you’re desperately looking for action at 3-5 life and he has 0-1 cards in hand…

If your sole goal is to nug Vortex I can see leaving it in, but (in my opinion, although it is contrary to what Gerry says) there’s more to the matchup than that and I would much rather just board in cards that are overall more effective against Vortex (and their deck) as long as I have them in my sideboard.

Gavin

]]> By: admin http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-340 admin Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:19:52 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-340 @jimmypoopins Yeah, I understand in the sense that he took Sulfuric Vortex in sideboarded games. I just think Thoughtseize is one of the most overrated cards in Magic, and I would be hard pressed to have it in my deck against a Red deck in a post-Game One situation (if I even started it... it is not typically a card I play starting). Thoughtseize gives the Red Deck exactly what it wants: two damage in one card... But the opponent is making the mana down payment. The reason I don't like Thoughtseize in this situation is that yes, he did get Sulfuric Vortex, but he won Game Two only because I was color screws and Game Three wasn't close anyway. If you need a Sulfuric Vortex / Red Deck solution, then you should probably try to play some kind of a Sulfuric Vortex / Red Deck solution; Thoughtseize is an inconsistent "solution" to the Vortex problem because the opponent has to have it in hand when you play Thoughtseize... It is neutral or bad more than 50% of the time, mathematically. I would be interested in hearing what GavinV thinks about this... Sorry again for being a colossal grump. Still grumpy. LOVE MIKE @jimmypoopins
Yeah, I understand in the sense that he took Sulfuric Vortex in sideboarded games.

I just think Thoughtseize is one of the most overrated cards in Magic, and I would be hard pressed to have it in my deck against a Red deck in a post-Game One situation (if I even started it… it is not typically a card I play starting). Thoughtseize gives the Red Deck exactly what it wants: two damage in one card… But the opponent is making the mana down payment.

The reason I don’t like Thoughtseize in this situation is that yes, he did get Sulfuric Vortex, but he won Game Two only because I was color screws and Game Three wasn’t close anyway. If you need a Sulfuric Vortex / Red Deck solution, then you should probably try to play some kind of a Sulfuric Vortex / Red Deck solution; Thoughtseize is an inconsistent “solution” to the Vortex problem because the opponent has to have it in hand when you play Thoughtseize… It is neutral or bad more than 50% of the time, mathematically.

I would be interested in hearing what GavinV thinks about this…

Sorry again for being a colossal grump. Still grumpy.

LOVE
MIKE

]]> By: jimmypoopins http://fivewithflores.com/2009/01/five-with-tarmogoyfs-stuff/#comment-338 jimmypoopins Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:30:28 +0000 http://fivewithflores.com/?p=331#comment-338 in death cloud he most likely left in thoughtseize because he lost to sulfuric vortex game 1. he probably thought you were playing it as a 4-of and for that reason kept thoughtseize in. sulfuric vortex is a game loss unless there is some enchantment hate boarded in, almost always. in death cloud he most likely left in thoughtseize because he lost to sulfuric vortex game 1. he probably thought you were playing it as a 4-of and for that reason kept thoughtseize in. sulfuric vortex is a game loss unless there is some enchantment hate boarded in, almost always.

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