Comments on: All-in, &c.

By: bzander

bzander — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:23:18 +0000

I agree on both plays. However I might put the “Darksteel Citadel, go” guy on playing Affinity instead of Burn from that spot. Somehow “Darksteel Citadel, go” seems worse to me for a burn deck than a Affinity deck. He could be slowroling ‘thopters etc if he was playing Affinity…

By: Gifts Ungiven

Gifts Ungiven — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:51:23 +0000

“He opened with Windswept Heath for Wooded Foothills.”

Magical! I assumed this meant Stomping Ground.

As for the actual play, I think fewer decks have outs to turn one Blood Moon than to turn one Magus of the Moon, so that’s often the more reasonable play. That said, I’ve been testing AIR out and it’s really obnoxious trying to read when you should go for Moon rather than trying instead to go for a threat. There are an uncomfortably large number of decks around that aren’t actually locked out of the game in any meaningful way by a Moon effect, and a misread there means that you’re spending several turns trying to build up to one of your (solid!) topdecks while they get to keep playing.

By: ProdigalT

ProdigalT — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:00:58 +0000

Even though there are more than a dozen outs to get the Moon/Magus turn 2 if you run out the Deus first, there are just as many non-outs. Deus does put him on his heels pretty quickly, but Moon might just shut him out completely. Zoo might just get caught with 2-point Tribal Flames and 1/1 Kird Apes for the whole game. If you run out the Deus and can’t immediately follow with Moon (and as it turns out, Moon would have been a few turns down the road), that might give the Zoo player a chance, no matter how improbable, to get back in the game. I hope I’m not misassigning roles, but isn’t All-In Red the control deck here? Certainly it’s not Zoo.

By: cfoxrun

cfoxrun — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:36:59 +0000

First play I think is correct, especially if you made the read of him being the Burn Deck. I would have played the Deus. According to what I read he didn’t drop a creature turn 1. He doesn’t have anything on turn 2 that can kill the Deus and he will have to put a blocker in the way of Deus… which still tramples.

He also has to have O.Ring (3 in his deck at most). He is going to be chump blocking until he gets the O-Ring but still taking trample damage. Your one more mountain, ritual away from dropping blood moon or Magnus.

If I am playing AIR then I think you need to take the aggressive approach. I am not sure why you would have blocked the Goyf. Don’t you win the race? Why would he have swung unless he has a way to finish you off?

By: vpreacher

vpreacher — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:33:24 +0000

I’ve been known to be overly aggressive so take this for what it’s worth. The first play seems correct. In the second one Deus then a moon seems correct. He has to have a plains and a third turn O-Ring to stop it. .

Also, what do you think of the Serum Powder plan? It seems a little too cute but who knows.

By: Alfrebaut

Alfrebaut — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:07:13 +0000

I agree with the first play. As a “Lightning Bolt deck” player, I can tell you it’s real easy to kill a Demigod(especially if you run multiple Seals), so the Empty play is definitely correct. As for the second play, Deus vs. Moon vs. Magus, I think Deus might be the correct play. You’re on turn 1, so it’s unlikely they have a removal spell for the Deus on turn 2… however, if they do have the O-Ring(which they did) you’re praying for another accelerant to play the Magus or the B. Moon. Actually… in the same situation I might go land, go on turn 1, see the Tarmogoyf, then play the Magus on turn 2 off of a Guide, then Deus on turn 3, but that pretty much results in the same thing as the original…

By: Aten

Aten — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:18:44 +0000

The first play doesn’t involve a read. Warrens isn’t going to lose many games against decks that open Citadel, go, especially games in which said decks actually do open Citadel, go. Demigod isn’t the other option or even an option. Mountain, go is the play against an affinity deck that can’t kill Magus, but I really don’t see the profit in trying to make that kind of read here.

By: starwarer

starwarer — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:15:02 +0000

In the first You Make the Play, I’d have agreed on the Affinity read, and the subsequent method of dealing with them.

In the second, I think the right play is Deus, with Moon follow-up. This establishes your clock first, and attempts to lock your Zoo opponent out of valid answers after. By doing this, you require the Zoo player to play defensively. And with the Deus that happened to follow, you’d have likely buried your opponent before your uncontested Jitte even came into the picture.

I also think you were incorrect in blocking with the Deus. Tribal Flames gives the Zoo player much more reach on his own turn. By not blocking, you give yourself the chance to neuter your opponent unless he actually has another sacrificial creature or double burn spell (and the mana to cast them), as there are few options for him to block and burn effectively.

By: Aten

Aten — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:03:21 +0000

You didn’t lead Magus because he’d have killed it. You should have because that’s sort of the point.

By: ProdigalT

ProdigalT — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:52:17 +0000

I agree with both plays. In the first example, a case could have been made for a turn-1 Deus if you had that, but Empty is still probably right. Against a deck with multiple ways of killing a 4-toughness guy, Demigod is clearly wrong, as you could just lose the game right there if he has Shrapnel Blast (and it turns out he did). There’s probably nothing terribly wrong with a turn-1 Deus in the second example, but as you had 2 Mountains and a Song, there’s not much risk involved in waiting. If his only removal was O-Ring, I guess you should have played Magus, but I’m guessing you didn’t know. In any case, I don’t think either decision was too agonizing. As a deck, All-In Red is terrifying. But there’s that old axiom, as true in Magic as it is in poker: “All-in works every time except once.” And Conflux apparently has the ace I was missing to deal with first turn shenanigans.